Now please don't think i have come here just to complain I am hoping I can find some help with what I have been experiencing since the latest patch. Last night me and my guild went into Naxx and were running fairly well for the most part light jovial etc. However since that latest patch with Diminishing returns every boss we fought or trash mob we downed I could not keep threat at all. I use a standard rotation nothing fancy starting with Blood rage,charge, shield block, devastate, Thunderclap, Revenge (when up), Heroic strike (have glyph to get free use), Shield Slam. Taunt and Mocking blow(have glyph of Barbaric Insults) when needed to help avoid the diminishing returns they added to us. Yet last night my average taunting, mocking blow, or Challenging shout I had a success rate of 15%. Now to try and help further I have my vigilance on the OT or one of the heavy hitting d.p.s classes. I use to have no problems with keeping the bosses and mobs attention but now it seems the only good tanks for any raid runs are going to be Paladins and Druids. Does anyone have any suggestions or information that can help me return my protection warrior back to being worth a class to have as a tank?
Also on a secondary note I am looking for some help in creating my secondary spec of Fury does anyone have any rotation spec information in regards to making a good hard hitting fury use?
check the tankspot forums for warrior tanking rotations, yours seems... very very bad. you should always open with shield slam as your first hit, then stack sunders to proc sword and board, and shield slam against as its available, also use revenge if its up, and shield slam is on cooldown. if both are on cooldown, use conc blow or shockwave. thunderclap is just for mob packs, and the glyph of barbaric insults is total crap, get glyph of shield wall / revenge / blocking/ or maybe even glyph of vigilance if you really think you need threat.
I just started using this website to track some items for my guild and I noticed your post when i hit the warrior section. The prior answer of going to Tankspot is a really good recommendation as there is a wealth of knowledge there.
Additionally, from my own experiences, tanking trash and bosses uses a slightly different opening rotation. The first thing I ensure in my raids is that my healers all have tank assignments for trash clearing. It keeps them focused on you and lets you be a little more aggressive on pulls then you may normally not be. With this in mind, you charge into a pack of mobs and immediately Thunderclap. I typically take a step back to bring the mobs tighter together and then i Shockwave them. I queue up a Cleave, toss a demo shout, Revenge, switch targets, shield slam, switch targets, cleave, Thunderclap, Revenge/SS etc.
The key to this is to work the same rotation on multiple targets and use your AE style abilities quickly. Working one target and expecting to hold a pack of 4-5 is not going to work. I run mainly with Mages, warlocks, Fury warriors, and rogues with liberal use of Fan of Knives so my OT and I have to be quick and work rotations on many mobs. I dont really have a Paladin or DK tank that plays regularly and maybe that is why we got really good at holding the mobs. We don't have that AE crutch.
However, as a warrior you are what i call Mobile AE, or a Mobile Consecrate! Your Shockwave and TC arent tied to a spot on the floor so you can be everywhere at once; especially with the changes to Intercept, Charge, and intervene. We can use them in any stance so do forget that as a mobility tool!
For single target threat use your vigilance on a top-notch single target DPSer. Don't look at who is doing mad AE threat but look at that guy that is always creeping up. There is not much of a rotation anymore but learn and use the priority system. Rev - SS - Dev - (Conc/SW etc). We have a lot of tools and your issues could be a multitude of reasons.
I would also look at your self from an itemization perspective. I do not know your gear or how your gear stacks against your DPS's gear but make sure you are itemized right. Not being hit capped or expertise soft capped will hurt you a great deal on threat generation. The Deep Wounds spec will offer you a natural Threat increase on trash; procs off your damage shield. Also, check your glyphs. If you are more concerned about Trash threat then Single target threat then look at the glyph of sunder which applies a stack of sunder to a nearby mob. If you care more about single target threat, as i do, then use glyph of devastate. This will apply 2 stacks of sunder to your target every time you click the button.
Our use of devastate is limited since WOTLK hit. We use it mainly to proc Sword and Board. It is still valuable in the rotation but typically when our other priorities are on GCD. Lastly, make sure that you aren't getting overzealous with heroic strike spam on trash. This is a good way to rage dry yourself putting you in a position of just standing there doing nothing waiting for rage while your DPS are gaining valuable ground.
Grab omen threat meter if you do not have it. there is a TPS column. Go out and find some mobs that you can beat of for a bit that wont kill you right away or take a healer with you. Get an idea of how much average Threat Per Second you are pushing. 4-6k should get you well past most DPS. In current gear i can spike around 9k TPS then its back down to around 5-6k depending on rage flow.
I only started tanking when dual spec came out. I was level 80 and had zero tanking gear so had to create(BS), buy and equip the basic epic starter tanking kit. My gear is pretty good now.
I actually have grown to enjoy tanking and found that finding groups to run with is much easier as a tank (obviously). I was nervous about tanking raids but got so tired of wiping that I decided to jump in and get it done.
My rotation START is identicle to Calintara: charge, thunderclap, back up slightly to get the mob in a nice tight half circle in front of you, shockwave. (with this start you can probably do just about any rotation you want afterwards).
The charge gives you seperation from your group for enough time to build aggro without having to beg dps to wait a few seconds.
Then the difference from Calintara's rotation and mine is that then I spam devistate to 5, TAB, spam devistate to 5, TAB, etc. Throw in thunderclap when ever it is cooled down. If a single Mob pulls off, mouse select him, taunt and back to group or challenge shout then back to group.
Now I enjoy pulling multiple mobs or even whole rooms if i can. I dont know why but I enjoy having a huge half circle of dead in front of me and the more the better.
On bosses i follow the same start, spam devistate to 5 and then use the full rotation of specials until devistate is almost expired, devistate to refresh and back to full rotation.
With mobs and spaming devistate my dps is around 1100 but mobs go down faster. With bosses and a full rotation after devistate my dps is around 1500.
I find that threat is the one thing I never have trouble with, raiding or otherwise. I am far from hit capped (180 hit rating I have methinks) and far from expertise capped. The vast majority of my threat comes from shield slam. For an idea as to how much threat I do, I get roughly 1900-2.5k dps on trash in raids (For groups of 3-5), and ~1700-1800 on bosses in ten mans, and slightly more in 25. Beyond this, I am a stam stacker.
For opening on trash: Choose your mob. Don't select a random one and charge, give it thought, because a good charge target can lead to you not having to reposition for the shockwave that follows the TC. Spam cleave, like you would HS on bosses. If you're doing good with threat on the main target (Or there's a 20% threat gap before second closest) and the mob is at half health, tab target, you don't need to worry about him anymore. Focus on the next target. If you have AoE troubles, Vig and AoE'r for mobs. Other than the TC's and shockwaves, treat mobs like bosses for rotation.
For bosses: Charge, shield block (this helps with any burst damage if the healers fail and aren't in range), and shield slam (With shield block, this will get you a very large amount of threat). Two devastates and a revenge, and shield slam again (Unless sword and board procs, then earlier). Heroic strike with everything. You should either have it bound to every macro you have made, including your /readycheck macro, or you should have one finger devoted to pressing that button, even if you are a mouse clicker, like I am. You just can't click heroic strike. Also: Thunderclap and demo shout bosses! While it slightly gimps your threat gen, you need to de-buff that boss! You're looking at close to a 40% decrease to it's white damage with both. You should NEVER have threat troubles on raid bosses, unless you are vastly outgeared.
In my experience, your starting rotation and the instructions you give your dps will always tell how a raid boss pull is going to go. Like some of the previous advice, on a single target use your heaviest threat attacks. (i.e. shield slam, revenge, heroic strike, heroic throw, devastate)
If you use all of these regularly, your rotation should fall into place.
Make sure you use shield slam before your revenge, which has a change of proc [Sword and Board] which lets you use another shield slam. Get a addon that helps keep track of your CDs as well.
These should help a lot.
P.S. Pally and bear tanks don't hold a candle to single target threat that warrior tanks have.
A lot of people seem to think that there is something wrong with warriors in WotLK, but in my experience the flaw often lies in the rest of the group or in the player. DPS lately have an unreasonable desire to go all out on targets without even allowing the tank to establish aggro, while blatantly ignoring any marked kill order. It is important to realize that this behavior will make it difficult for any tank. Of course on single target or boss pulls, any decent tank will find it easy to compensate, but on AE pulls involving elite trash, this can be a major issue. I've found that simply speaking with the DPS and using vigilance on the worst offender solves the problem around 80% of the time.
In spite of my above statements, warriors do need to realize that there are some positions best filled by other classes. We will never be able to hold aggro on large trash packs as easily as a Paladin can, nor should we be able to. In a raid environment, see to it that you have a Paladin as your OT for trash packs and AE fights.
Now there are of course some situations, such as heroics, where you will be the only tank. In these situations, you need to make the most of the AE tanking abilities that you do possess as a warrior. I'll give a few tips below:
1: If there really are too many mobs for you to tank, utilize some CC...it is there for a reason.
2: Spec down to deep wounds in the arms tree and glyph your cleave to hit and extra target. Be sure that you have improved TC. If you do not have these for trash/heroic tanking, you're doing it wrong. Is cleave a crutch as some people say? Yes. Does that make it bad if it allows you to succeed? No.
3: Charge casters and stack the melee mobs on top of them before your shockwave. Stacked mobs are far easier to tab through. Yes, you're a warrior. You DO have to tab through individual mobs. If you must ranged pull, use your heroic throw to silence the caster. Use bloodrage in place of charge in such situations.
4: Gear for what you are actually doing. If you are tanking trash/heroics/OTing, gear for more DPS stats/SBR/SBV/etc. You only gear strictly for avoidance/stam as the MT (you still need reasonable threat stats then as well). While it is possible to use a balanced set of gear, you should ideally have two separate ones in my opinion.
5: Finally, if you are truly fed up with warrior tanking, but you still want to tank, simply reroll. There is no reason to keep playing a class that doesn't work for you.
6: Ask rogues/hunters for help. MD and TotT make a world of difference on a large pull. Ask DPS paladins/dks not to drop consecrate/D&D if it is making it difficult to hold aggro off of them (They probably shouldn't have been using those abilities anyway).
7: Make sure that the DPS/healers all utilize threat meters and stay behind you if possible. Healers/ranged should never be on the melee aggro table unless it is their only option.
8: Use raid marks for kill order/CC. If you do not do this, your aggro issues are at least partially your fault.
9: If people refuse to cooperate with you, remove them from the group. There is no reason to tolerate such people. Raiding is a team effort, and people who do not want to be part of that effort have no place in a raid.
10: Never take responsibility for other players' failures, especially when they try to blame it on your class. Comments such as, "We wouldn't have wiped if a paladin was tanking." are almost always attempts at shifting responsibility and should be shown for what they are.
Sorry if I posted a lot of information that has already been posted or if any of my information/suggestions are in error. I am always open to constructive criticism.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. An MT in a raid will probably get very limited use out of it, while a tank might find it a godsend in a five-man. Most of the time, it isn't needed, but it can make your life just that much easier.
Well warrior tanking has changed alot since WoTLK. I have a very unusual rotation that is more or less situational. I will charge everytime and I will either open up with TC or SS. SS is good for when there is a little distance between the first mob and the rest of the pack. TC is a good gathering technique in any circumstance. Once that is done I have TC on 1 SS on 2 revenge on 3 cleave on 4. All i do is spam 1 2 3 4 in rapid succession. If something gets out of line i taunt or SW when needed. I almost never devastate. It sounds kinda rough but i never lose threat even when working with 6k DPS in raids. Everything else is situational like i was saying. And because of that first come first server basis i have higher DPS and TPS than most warrior tanks. Sounds odd but if you try it youd be surprised.