WoW Heroes -> View topic - Where is the page that shows how the points add up?

Infection

1. Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:08 pm

I haven't found anything yet that shows how these things add up. What actually counts for points on the page? Achievments? Professions? Gems? How many each?

Milagros

Site Admin

2. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:33 am

All info is in the character page in the part character info.

Infection

3. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:14 pm

Not seeing any kind of break down on why or how you get points per item you have on.

Great site and all, but it really needs a page to explain how it works. Tons of information about you character, yet nothing telling you how the points upgrade you.

I have all of 2 or 3 pieces that are 200 item level, yet as I look at another server, there are people that dont even have a 226 item level piece that are ahead of my score.

Pretty much a generic association to having a number spot on your server IMO.

Alex

Site Admin

4. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:17 pm

Some things must be kept confidential, or we would have a lot of websites stealing the formula and trying to do the same. All I can say is: score rises with better PvE items, better PvE enchants and gems.

viveye

5. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:12 am

Alex wrote:
Some things must be kept confidential, or we would have a lot of websites stealing the formula and trying to do the same. All I can say is: score rises with better PvE items, better PvE enchants and gems.

I don't understand, are you suggesting that the criteria you use to grade a toon is so brilliant that no one but you can know it?

Or are you simply suggesting that laying in wait, out there on the big bad internet, lie copious websites just waiting to get their grubby hands on The Formula that nobody else is allowed to know about?

Could you at least tell us a little bit about this valuable stroke of genius that you have performed above and beyond using a weighted average to draw a little bar with two colors? I promise I won't steal it.

If a teacher in school told you that your final grade in their class was based on an in class 10 page essay- to be completed the first day of class, but didn't tell you _anything_ about what he looks for when grading, would you take his class?

How can anybody assess the usefulness of the rating you assign them?

Do you intend to sell this intellectual property of yours or something? Even if that is the case, if you wish to be taken seriously, at the bare minimum, you're going to have to let people know by what criteria is their grade calculated.

Cheers.

P.S. Looking through the forums it's quite clear your formula has hardly been vetted, so why keep it such a secret?

Alex

Site Admin

6. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:29 pm

Ok the secret formula is :shock:

:
take one slice of person's level, mix it up with a bit of gems. Put some items, and stir it up slowly. Now, there's that unfortunate "resilience" thing you want to take out, to avoid getting your soup, ehrm, I mean score, too bitter. Now it's time for some delicate spicing: pick some enchants carefully and pop them in. Now, professions also have some slight influence! This is starting to be complicated! :read:

The better the ingredients are, the better the score is

Now, we don't intend to sell all this, nor do we consider it a stroke of genius, or anything like that. But we do want to avoid having to answer to tons of people why we decided to make this count for X and not counting it for Y. The problem is that mostly (always?) only unsatisfied people post something on forum, while the others (majority) just use the website and are happy with the way things are. The more time we spend on such useless talk, the more time we have to implement some new features. Only 2 people are working 100% on maintaining this website (with some help from our guild), so we don't have time for arguing. The fact that we get more and more people visiting (and returning) to wow-heroes each month is proof that we are doing a good job.

If you like wow-heroes and you think scores look good (when you compare lvl 80 char who just dinged and lvl 80 char who has Nax/EoE/OS gear), feel free to use it. If you don't like it, try to find another website which you like better (but as far as I know, none of those websites offer the complete formula publicly also), and have fun

Infection

7. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:02 am

Quote:
Now, we don't intend to sell all this, nor do we consider it a stroke of genius, or anything like that. But we do want to avoid having to answer to tons of people why we decided to make this count for X and not counting it for Y. The problem is that mostly (always?) only unsatisfied people post something on forum, while the others (majority) just use the website and are happy with the way things are. The more time we spend on such useless talk, the more time we have to implement some new features.

Well, just a FYI for you. When Wowinsider mentioned you, there were tons of people that just discredited this site due to the fact your score doesn't account to the lvl of the gear right.

But hey, nothing you can do about it right? (or want to do about it)

My only problem with your "use this site and accept our points or get off" is the fact that you make a ranking system that list what order you are on the server, yet you clearly state you don't care about X and Y and are not going into detail with it.

My question to you is: Why have that? Why do you have a section that ranks people? And the fact that you sit and state you won't go into detail and don't want to explain anything, just further discredits this site more.

But for all your "audience" you are getting, they are like me, come here and look at the site until they realize what it is really about and then leave. You'll either try to figure it out and produce results, or fade off like wowjutsu and others that don't put effort into things when people are giving the problem.

But good luck though. Like I said before: Cool site, but its just a generic site at most when it comes to ranks a person has on the server due to their gear and accomplishments.

Alex

Site Admin

8. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:35 am

Quote:
Well, just a FYI for you. When Wowinsider mentioned you, there were tons of people that just discredited this site due to the fact your score doesn't account to the lvl of the gear right.

There were 29 comments overall, and we just launched the website few days before that, and never expected to get so much traffic, or that wowinsider will consider us worthy of a story. So, wow-heroes was down for several hours, which most of those comments point out. So, that's not "tons of people discrediting wow-heroes on wowinsider"

Quote:
My only problem with your "use this site and accept our points or get off" is the fact that you make a ranking system that list what order you are on the server, yet you clearly state you don't care about X and Y and are not going into detail with it.

I never said I don't care about it, I just want to avoid to answer why it's like that. The ratings on this website are a product of wow experience since first beta and lots of researching for all classes/specs.

Quote:
My question to you is: Why have that? Why do you have a section that ranks people? And the fact that you sit and state you won't go into detail and don't want to explain anything, just further discredits this site more.

Because people seems to like it. It's the same thing as guild report, only it doesn't take the people from the same guild, but from the same server.

Did you find out how wowhead ranks items in their "compare" feature? No. Well, it's the same thing here.

Quote:
But for all your "audience" you are getting, they are like me, come here and look at the site until they realize what it is really about and then leave. You'll either try to figure it out and produce results, or fade off like wowjutsu and others that don't put effort into things when people are giving the problem

If you browse through forum a bit more, you'll find out that Milagros and I are doing everything within our power to satisfy as many people as possible. This is still, after all, a completely free website and no one is forcing anyone to use it. We're doing this in our spare time, and the people who visit it seem to appreciate the effort. For example, instead of enjoying WotLK when it came out, we worked really hard to make it operational within the first 3 days (not to mention that we are both very very active raiders and it wasn't so easy to do this). To sum this all up: if you like the website, use it. If you don't like it, either find another one that suits you better, or make another one if you can. Good luck with both

areala11

9. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:26 pm

Ok im new to this site and would appreciate a little help understanding something...On the guild page there are numbers on the left of the players names what do those mean? Ive asked several people and they dont know either. :blush:

Gyx

10. Re: Where is the page that shows how the points add up? » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:12 am

I personally do not care if you keep your formula a secret or not, but I thought I would point out some flaws in what little bit of info you have given:

1) Professions should not have any influence...the result of said professions should however. Give bonuses for using JC gems but do not give a bonus simply for being a JC...how much good is a warrior with BS'ing using 2x +16intellect gems in his profession only sockets? If he still gets points for being a BS...and no penalty for what he actually gemmed; then he is still a little further ahead of someone who is not a BS and is using 2x 16int gems...when in actuality both of them are morons...but one of them spent more money to do so.

2) Has your system been tuned to DK's at all? DK tanks generally have Blade Barrier...do they get major kudos for the 10% parry they have during combat...ya know...when it matters, or is that not taken into consideration because "it's about gear"...the problem with this point is that you assign a ranking which in turn equates to a persons value in X position...so that Warrior with his 2x16int gems would be considered a better tank due to a higher ranking, than a DK who in all actuality is better geared. How much weight does IBF carry? How much weight does the fact Scourge Strike, Howing Blast, and DnD all ignore Armor carry? Things other than gear do matter, and I have a feeling you haven't done much of anything to account for the cards that DK's bring to the table.

3) Items sometimes go hand in hand with Spec. A 32/39 DW DK would not use Titanium Impact Band over Signet of Bridenbrad...simply because Arm. Pen is a fail stat for that build...yet SoB is ilvl 174 compared to TIB having a ilvl200...so unless you have your "Formula" set up to include spec and top 3 sources of damage then how do you claim to rank someone?

4) The reason all of this is important is because people see a ranking and they automatically assume they are "better than soandso" or, "better geared for the raid than soandso". This has happened to me before. Someone looked on your site and chose a Rogue instead of my Enhancement Shaman for a ZA run. Their reasoning was that I was not as geared and therefore could not put out the same or better dps than the rogue. They forgot to include the fact that I can BL...I can Self Rez, I have totems for group buffs/cleansing, and on top of that I had consistently beaten the rogue in dps and dmg done for the past 3 weeks in all other runs...they used your gear score to determine my worth...instead of using my ability and my class's unique offerings. That's why this site fails.

Remove the "Rank" category/column and just list by gear score and your site would be otw to a much better start. I can tell you right now there are at least 10,000 instances of someone being ranked lower due to item/gem/chant choices that are spec/raid/class specific...want an easy one? +18stam armor kit is ranked lower than 2% threat and parry enchant....how much do you think 2% threat and parry help a Tank against Sartharion+3? Not much.

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