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You have Potency (20 str) rated as a 10 enchant, but Savagery (70AP) as a 3. As a ret pally w/ 5/5 in divine strength and Kings each str is 2.4 AP. that's only 48 AP. Savagery pretty definitely is better than that. Mongoose and Executioner are definitely better when you have a high amount of Str/AP, but not potency.
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Ano
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Agree, 70 AP is pretty win... should be right up there with mongoose and executioner as the later 2 are much more situational based on other gear/weapon.

would need to run the math and check the DPS percs from the other 2, but i'd wager these 3 come out pretty close....

Someone link me with an elitestjerks.com post or something that proves the math? pls

**Edit**
NM I found it on Elitest jerks, looks like the math gives Exec vs Savag vs Mongoose anywhere between ~5 and ~15 DPS difference depending on the figth ect ect ect for basically any Ret. So IMO All 3 10's with Potency like an 8 tops...
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Give Savagery a 9.

Its good in kara, but as soon as you hit 25man raids, its crap.

Mongoose is best. Until you get 700 Armor Penetration. Then Executioner starts winning on dps.
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Ano
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"Don't forget that Mongoose scales with Kings, giving you 132agility which is 5.28% crit.

Since most Ret Paladins will not be stacking ArP because it's not as good as Strength, all you're looking at is a 5.6% increase in dps on Crusader Strike and Auto-attack when Executioner procs, as opposed to having Mongoose give 5.28% crit on all your abilities and 2% haste for your autoattack (and Seal of Blood, if applicable).

Every spreadsheet I use Mongoose always comes up on top, unless I specifically gimp my other stats to get more ArP, which is also results in lower dps."


**The Above is direct from Elitest Jerks forum. He makes the same arguement I would make against executioner he just does it with the math.

Really, STR scales better than ArP. Yeah, I'm sure in Sunwell gear you're being forced to take ArP items, but prior to that there is no reason to take ArP over either STR or Haste... That should take care of Mongoose vs Executioner


As for Mongoose vs Savagery

"Savagery Provides the best possible sustained (raw)DPS out of all enchants (PvE)

Agility gives you 1.4% more crit over Savagery, at the cost of 19 weapon damage.

Mongoose fails miserably on a slow weapon like DT. The proc rate grants 30 agility (1.2% crit) and 5.25% haste on average. Seems nice, but it's too streaky to rely on in PvP, and Savagery outperforms it in PvE."


**Again from elitest jerks, he left out a lot of the math but he's right. Sure, on a fast weapon where all u do is tank and spank the boss you'll get a lot of Mongoose procs but on any fight where you're running in and out or missing swings you won't have much of an up time on Mongoose.

Not to mention the fact that the average Ret pally swings once every 3.6 seconds. given Mongoose's average proc rate you really aren't seeing it up all that often.



This is why all 3 deserve 10's. Savagery gives the most bang for the $, and Mongoose and Execution are both extremely situational on which is better... Savagery may not be optimal for every fight, but neither are the other 2.
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But Mongoose scales.
Savagery doesn't.

Once you hit 25man raids, 1.4 crit and the extra haste, it out-performs Savagery in any way.
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Ano
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It only out preforms if it has a higher average DPS out put. that is 100% dependant on Proc Per Minute %'s. If you're only hitting for 70% of the fight because you have to run out than Mongoose takes a huge hit to its PPM where Savagery is a static amount.

That's why mongoose is situaltionally better, but to make the blanket statement that it is always better is wrong. Sure on a fight where u just stand there and swing it's awesome, but take for example Prince in Kara, Melee spends almost as much time running out and back as it does swinging...


Lets say you make 10 swings every time against Prince and 2 of those 10 swings proc mongoose. Sure if you got a proc on the 1st swing, and the 5th swing you'd probably end up doing better than savagery... But the odds are just as high that you'll get just as many procs on 1st string as you do last swing... and a mongoose proc while you're running out does nothing.

Now for PVP Mongoose is better, flat out. Cuz that proc helps work as burst dmg and dmg in Arena is all about burst, and in this same world Executioner is also really good.

All you do is wait for the mongoose proc, pop wings, and Crit/AP trinkets and blow ppl up.

You're certainly not wrong, Mongoose is an awesome enchant and just as often as its worse it's better. but for my $ I'll stick with Savagery, atleast until my AP is so high that I just don't care anymore and all I want is crit.
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Mongoose is still better as you are in melee range most of the time. But, as said on the forums back when i was starting ret.

Savagery first.
2000ap with savagery , get mongoose.
700 ArP, get Executioner.

:D
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Pretty sure i already replied in a post about this enchant.

But anyways. Savage won't scale. A score of 7 seems more like it with Mongoose/Executioner taking 9/10 depending on Armor Pen. Potency does scale but not as high in AP as Savage so a 5 sounds good for it.

Mongoose is crit. Agility doesn't get us ret's anything but crit (ya ya dodge and armor too). The haste will help with Seal of Blood and I think THAT's the bigger part of the proc. More crit? there's no crit cap but still when you're pushing 30% unbuffed is it gonna make that much more a difference?
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It also gives haste.
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Anacin wrote:
.....Mongoose is crit. Agility doesn't get us ret's anything but crit (ya ya dodge and armor too). The haste will help with Seal of Blood.......



I know, I said that.
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