WoW Heroes -> View topic

Parrazell

1. Druid issues » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:07 pm

Looking at my feral druid I see that some of the enchants I have are marked down due to them being either resilience or defense based. From a tanking druid persperctive its practically required to use resilience & defense enchants to maintain crit immunity.

Is it possible for it do diferentiate between dps & tanking gear for the purpose of enchants?

Also much of the pvp gear is ideal (in some cases superior) for druid tanking yet they get marked down in value. Can this be fixed?

Amrun

2. Re: Druid issues » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:21 pm

I take it that you're http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... =Parrazell ?

First of all, defense and resilience is quite easy to gain. Hence the +stats to chest being considered more valuable than the +15 resilience. Also, if that's you, you're kind of crittable. :p

The things I should agree on is that the head enchant should be rated the same as the other one from the keepers of time. Different usage but both handy.
Also, it would be awesome if you could designate on which way you want enchants to be rated. Either as tanking/healing/melee dps/ranged dps. Though I think that's either impossible or hard to do. :<

Parrazell

3. Re: Druid issues » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:28 am

Yes thats me, and yes Im crittable. That is until I use an Elixer of Ironskin (+30 resilience) then its not a problem.

However the fact remains that the calculations dont take into account defense/resilience scores when determining enchant scores.

+6 stats on chest imo is not the best enchant, using resilience enchants frees up so much more gearing options.
Yes by themselves +6 stats v's +15 resilience its obvious that +6 stats is better. But when taken as part of a larger gearing stratagey imo +6 stats losses out.

plisken451

4. Re: Druid issues » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:21 pm

I don't think you're ever going to be able to come up with a cohesive way to score the "intent" of an enchant or a piece of gear. You might be able to score the "desirability" of a piece, but that's still a subjective measure (i.e. the Devilshark Cape may be an iLvl 115 blue item, but it's generally considered pretty awesome given it's stat distribution).

Parrazell

5. Re: Druid issues » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:26 pm

I agree.
be.imba faced a similar issue with different items being superior to hight ilevel gear. They got around it but 'weighting' some gear to properly reflect there value.
anywy you look at it, its not an easy issue to resolve but definatly one worth addressing

Amrun

6. Re: Druid issues » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:06 pm

plisken451 wrote:
I don't think you're ever going to be able to come up with a cohesive way to score the "intent" of an enchant or a piece of gear. You might be able to score the "desirability" of a piece, but that's still a subjective measure (i.e. the Devilshark Cape may be an iLvl 115 blue item, but it's generally considered pretty awesome given it's stat distribution).

Yeah, that's always the main issue in games. It also matters how you prefer to play. For example, I wouldn't use the +30 resilience elixir as described above. But if it works for him, it is something that is viable. Same goes for the chest enchant, I guess. Though I still say it's an easy stat to obtain. :p

Wowgeek

7. Re: Druid issues » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:00 am

I gotta speak up... because there is no reason you can't be uncritable.

The reason your not is your choice to go for more stam and dodge.

You have 1 ring, and 2 trinkets that have no defense on them.

Guardian's Alchemist Stone
Brooch of the Immortal King
Ring of Unyielding Force
Necklace of the Juggernaut

Putting those on... moved you to 422 Defense. And you gain that .45% physical mitigation to cap off the 75% and you gain .43 avoidance. You do loose a bit of HP, but you can gain that back by using different pots now (and changing the resilience enchant to +6 all or +150 HP).

So from were I'm sitting... it's not the site that's wrong. :this:

Parrazell

8. Re: Druid issues » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:56 am

I disagree.
+6 stats is superior to 150 health for a druid (fully raid buffed ofc)
Yes I lose HP by switch back to those items (I keep most of em in the bank just in case I wanna switch stuff about).
But switching back to those (and using a pot to buff health 250/500) overall lowered my hp, dodge, crit and armour. All the important tanking stuff. in my situation it worked out better.

I reached the point were i thought "which is better, using a pot that gives 250 health or one that gives me +30 res"? That +30 res allowed a fairly large shift in my gear, and for me its worked out for the better.

At the moment Im trying to get the Trinket from HMgt (bloody thing just wont drop for me) and Im gonna start working towards the S3 Head. Once I have those I will be further swapping out my neck & cloak enchant for more appropriate things. but hey, who doesnt need to improve there gear :grin:

But. Going back the point I was trying to make. The site needs a capacity to 'judge' if an item is actually an upgrade for the toon based on more that its ilevel.

Mootwo

9. Re: Druid issues » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:43 pm

^^

Different playstyles. Neither is wrong. :yahoo:

....damn, you got a lot of smilies!

Toskk

10. Re: Druid issues » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:21 am

Well, to play devil's advocate.. providing a mathematical model that can accurately capture the scope of tanking, and the ability to configure that model for the desired scenario, it really is directly possible to mathematically rank the value of each stat for both DPS and tanking. For example, here is how the Chest enchants rank in a Time-to-Live calculator according to my bear form stats against Azgalor (measured in extra seconds the enchant allows you to live):

0.1787 Enchant Chest - Defense +15 Def
0.1785 Enchant Chest - Exceptional Stats +6 Stam, +6 Agi
0.0998 Heavy Knothide Armor Kit +10 Stam
0.0881 Enchant Chest - Exceptional Health +150 Health
0.0877 Enchant Chest - Major Resilience +15 Res

While it's certainly not the only method for ranking tanking gear, we're theoretically talking about a very complex mathematical equation. There is a correct answer, always. The equation just has hundreds of variables.

Suggestions